Sheema SenGupta, UNICEF's Director of Child Protection: "Children are increasingly being left behind on the priority scale."

No child or adolescent should be imprisoned. This is the conviction that guides the work of Sheema SenGupta (Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, 57 years old), UNICEF's Director of Child Protection. "The numbers are going down, but they are not where they should be," she warns during an interview with this newspaper. The rate of minors deprived of their liberty in 2024 was 28 per 100,000 children worldwide, according to data from the United Nations agency's Reimagining Justice for Children report , recently presented in Madrid during the 5th World Congress on Justice for Children.

In a global landscape marked by armed conflict , migration , and the climate crisis , Sen Gupta asserts that specialized legal frameworks for minors are urgently needed. According to UNICEF, only 38 countries meet the six elements proposed for achieving a child-friendly system, including a minimum age of criminal responsibility of 14 years or older, tailored investigation and adjudication, or special procedures for minor victims. The ideal scenario: ensuring that minors can claim their rights and access conflict resolution without being detained.

The countries that fail to meet any of the criteria for juvenile justice are Mexico, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and Myanmar, according to the report. The main challenges for the remaining countries in implementing these types of strategies include a lack of trained personnel and adequate budgets, SenGupta notes. But these challenges could be even more complex in the current context of cuts in development funding from the United States and some European countries.

Question: UNICEF reports that 28 out of every 100,000 children are deprived of their liberty worldwide. How can this figure be interpreted? Is it an indicator of progress or a warning sign?

Answer: Between 2018 and 2024, there were 67,000 fewer children in detention centers. The numbers are falling, but they're not where they should be and are still huge. Last year, there were approximately 259,000 children in detention worldwide. However, this is just the tip of the iceberg because not all governments report.

Q. Why is it urgent to “reimagine justice” for children?

A. When we launched the strategy [ Reimagining Justice for Children in 2021], it was urgent because we felt that children's access to justice was disappearing from the agenda. One of the fundamental principles is that all children in conflict with the law can be referred and not remain in detention. It is also urgent that child survivors of sexual violence, abuse, or exploitation truly receive justice. Children have very specific needs and rights. If we have a common justice system, specific needs are not taken into account, such as the right to education, to development, to play, to be raised by their parents, or to have a family.

One of the fundamental principles is that all children who are in conflict with the law can be referred and not remain in detention.

Q. What do you consider to be the most important challenge for children's justice today?

A. Although we've seen a lot of progress in children's legislation over the past four years, implementation is often a challenge. Addressing children's needs requires trained police and judicial personnel, social workers, psychologists, and so on. And that training isn't always available because countries don't always have the appropriate budget. Children should be at the center of all this. They must know what their rights are and how to access them. There are children who don't know how to express themselves or don't know they have the right to do so. We're not just talking about children in conflict with the law; there are also witnesses to a crime or those who have been abused, and they can't speak out because they don't feel safe or don't know how.

Q. A total of 38 countries meet the six elements proposed by UNICEF for a specialized justice system for children. What concrete changes would the remaining countries need to implement them effectively?

A. The best outcome would be no child detained. That would be the ideal world. If everything were implemented, then all children would be protected from any type of detention. Instead, there would be reintegration programs, diversion mechanisms, alternative or foster families. For example, unaccompanied children in transit in Spain are not detained. We have to look for alternatives like that. What is safe for children? Because we've seen that if alternatives are offered, the recidivism rate is much lower.

Children are not the offenders if they are recruited. Responsibility for that recruitment lies with the recruiter, not the child.

Q. How can the psychosocial well-being of children be ensured in protracted war zones and emergency-like situations?

A. " Ensure" is an important word, a very big word... Trauma can even become intergenerational. It shapes the way we live, the way we think, changes our personality, determines our reactions and relationships. I think what really helps are mental health and psychosocial support services. They should accompany them throughout the process. And one of the things we're publishing today in our technical guides is how to provide psychosocial and mental health support within this judicial system in a conflict situation. We shouldn't leave it to the end; it should accompany the child throughout the entire process.

Q. In countries like Mexico, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, and Sudan, the recruitment of children by armed groups has been reported. How should situations be addressed in which children are victims but, at the same time, accused of committing crimes?

A. In all cases, children are victims. Children are not the offenders if they are recruited. The responsibility for that recruitment falls on the recruiter, not the child. That's something we must remember in all cases.

Q. How is the dismantling of USAID, the United States development agency, and the cuts some European countries have made to development cooperation affecting children?

A. Many of our partners who carry out programs on the ground have begun to reduce their staff or stop working in certain countries because they don't have the necessary funds. We're seeing organizations working on behalf of children being forced to prioritize, close, and reduce their presence. I think within a year we'll see drastic impacts. Some countries consider this not a priority, or that certain countries aren't priorities, so people will leave before we can consolidate, for example, child protection systems.

Q. So, are the children the ones who are left behind?

A: Yes. But it's not just about funding cuts by the United States government or USAID, but also the domino effect of other European governments saying, "We're cutting because we have to prioritize defense." So, on the priority scale, children are increasingly being left behind.

Q. What urgent actions are needed to close this gap in countries without specialized childcare systems, such as Mexico, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and Myanmar?

A. What we need to do in these countries is defend and remember their commitments to the Convention on the Rights of the Child. In some countries, there are dual systems; they have their own traditional laws for this. So it's about interpreting and aligning both systems. All governments must commit to doing this. And then we have to learn from what already exists and work with children, because it's very important to listen to them.